Okay, that's not quite the point of this post, but it is close.  Tom Ziller of Sactown Royalty had a post last week about Mike Bibby's career direction, and included several nice graphs of Bibby's downward trends.  For example, here is Ziller's graph of Mike Bibby's shooting possessions, and his reliance on threes:
Bibbygraphed!It's a nice graph, illustrating how the "bulk of (Bibby's) shots have traditionally been twos, though his reliance on threes has increased quite a bit recently, while the frequency with which he draws fouls has remained rather consistent".  Tom Ziller makes it pretty clear with the visual what is going on with Bibby - he shoots more threes now.

My first thought while reading this was... isn't that true of Stephon Marbury, too?  Let's see what a graph of his career in a similar time frame tells us, if anything:
Starbury StarGraphed.  Kinda ugly, sorry....Wow, that's my ugly graph.  Despite having excellent Excel skills, I hate graphs and clearly suck at them.  I did manage to switch the colors so that it has Knick colors - blue and orange, with green representing those ugly green St. Patrick's Day uniforms James Dolan is so fond of. 

You see that the percentage of Marbury's possessions that result in FTs is constant - usually between 13-18% of his possessions.  At the same time, 30% of Stephon's scoring possessions ended in a three-point attempt, which is whopping considering his previous high (back in 2000-2001) was 22%, and only one other time in his career has he even topped 17% (20.5% in 04-05, his first full year in NYC).  That same season (04-05) is the previous low for "% of scoring possessions resulting in 2-point attempts", with only 62.1% (his average for this time frame is about 68%).  Last season - only 53.0%. 

The similarities between Marbury and Bibby don't stop there:  Tom Ziller points out that Mike Bibby's 2-point shooting percentage and 3-point% have both gone down slightly. 

In Marbury's case, though, it gets a little more complex:  Marbury's FG% overall hit a career-low last season of 41.5%.  In the time frame examined, his previous lowest was 43.1% (in 03-04), and his average overall was around 44%.  Yet, at the same time, his 3PT% was a career high - he hit 35.7% of his 3PTAs last year.  The obvious conclusion:  Marbury missed a lot more two-pointers last year (only hitting 44.8%) than at any point in the previous 8 years (previous low: 45.9% in that 03-04 season).  Check the tiniest graph below:

On the axis x=1, graph Marbury....Basically, that blue line going down?  That's Marbury's 2PT%.  That orange line going up?  That's his 3PT%.  That green line that is going down overall?   That's the combined % of all his FGAs. 

So there is a slight difference between Bibby and Marbury - Marbury is getting better at the threes, at least.

And the finally Tom Ziller graph has to do with Bibby's declining assist rate, and climbing turnover rate.  It was easy to recognize the similarity to Marbury's career, as Steph's assists have gone down steeply, too.  However, looking at the numbers further clarified a few things - one, Steph's previous greatness, and two, Bibby's varying assist rates.  I used minutes/assists rather than assist rate:

Marbury-Bibby GraphitudeWhat this graph illustrates is the number of minutes per assist by player.  So you see that in his hey-day, Marbury averaged about one assist every 5 minutes (or 8 apg at 40 mpg); Bibby only once reached that level of excellence once.  Mike Bibby's graph actually fluctuates more, whereas Marbury is steady declining (um, yes... going up is bad for this graph.  Sorry not to illustrate that in a more normal manner). 

Please note that Marbury's turnover rate is declining (getting better) every season. 

So, on to the larger point:  Whereas Bibby is considered a declining point guard who, as Ziller pointed out "is a point guard in name only", "not trying to set up his running mates at all", Marbury has been praised for his play last season.  Most Knick fans, plus the local press (who are often very harsh on Marbury) agree that Marbury played his most "team-oriented" season last year as a point, and that's why his numbers declined.  So why the difference in perception between Sacramento ("Bibby is not setting up his teammates") and New York ("Marbury is finally becoming a team-player")?

For one, less stats, particularly less points, makes it seem Marbury is looking for his shot less.  In fact, his decrease in FGAs seconds that train of thought - he's shooting less than ever before in his career.  Secondly, most savvy NY fans recognize that moving the offense along doesn't alway result in assists.  Especially on this Knicks team, which lacks a "true" SG.  A lot has been made about how Marbury isn't a "traditional" point, and it's true, but... Crawford is from the same mode as Marbury, which is to say another hybrid guard, not a traditional spot-up shooting guard.  He shoots off the dribble often or drives to the basket (making it hard to get an assist by passing to him).  A PG is going to get a lot more assists playing with a Peja Stojanovic or Allan Houston type player than a Crawford.  Or a Nate Robinson (first guard off the bench) for that matter.

In fact, the only person on the Knicks roster last season that fit the traditional SG mold is their starting SF, Quentin Richardson. 

Furthermore, Crawford averaged 4+ apg last year, mostly due to his passing into the interior to Eddy Curry.  In other words, he kinda "stole" some of Marbury's assists.   Ditto Robinson coming off the bench.  In fact, last season Marbury played as much 2-guard as he did 1-guard, with guys like Mardy Collins, Crawford, and Robinson alternating as "points".  That explains his sudden reliance on three-pointers, as he tried to fit the mold of the traditional SG.

So Knicks fans look at Marbury being a team-player, and fill gaps, sacrificing his numbers in order to do what the team needs.  I didn't see enough of the Kings last season to speculate on whether or not any of these things pertain to Bibby; I do believe Kevin Martin, the main focus of the offense, is more like Crawford in that he shoots off the dribble more, making it harder for a point to get assists.  Beyond that, I don't know much else about the situation in Sacramento, but perhaps Bibby will rebound this season with a new coach.

One more Knicks note:  I mentioned this over at Posting and Toasting, but I don't think the "Knicks are interested in Allan Houston" rumors are at all true.  It's pretty much well known that Knicks owner James Dolan is best friends with Allan Houston.  If he wanted Allan Houston on the Knicks roster, he would be on the team by yesterday.  Nah, more likely is that Dolan is doing his friend a favor, and giving him and his agent some leverage by faking "interest" in him (by inviting him to camp or tryouts), hoping that will drive up demand.  Dolan is releasing this info to the local newspapers, who play along and pretend the Knicks are really interested, instead of calling out the ploy.  At the end of the day I doubt you'll ever see Allan Houston play again, especially not as a Knick.  

Speaking of James Dolan... I will have an update of the Knicks' sexual harassment trial sometime tonight.  And, depending on how my schedule goes, I may even go down to the courtroom on Wednesday for a first hand account of James Dolan's expected testimony in the case. 

Leave a comment

Warning: include() [function.include]: http:// wrapper is disabled in the server configuration by allow_url_include=0 in /nfs/c01/h07/mnt/13075/domains/stopmikelupica.com/html/2007/09/mike_bibby_vs_stephon_marbury.php on line 283

Warning: include(http://www.stopmikelupica.com/newmiddlead.php) [function.include]: failed to open stream: no suitable wrapper could be found in /nfs/c01/h07/mnt/13075/domains/stopmikelupica.com/html/2007/09/mike_bibby_vs_stephon_marbury.php on line 283

Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening 'http://www.stopmikelupica.com/newmiddlead.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/php-5.3.29/share/pear') in /nfs/c01/h07/mnt/13075/domains/stopmikelupica.com/html/2007/09/mike_bibby_vs_stephon_marbury.php on line 283



[September 17, 2007 7:05 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Ricky - Sixers4guidos said

wow, what a research my friend, I am impressed !!!

I used to like Bibby a lot and obviously think he's a better PG than Marbury.

I wouldn't be suprised if he will end up in Cleveland or Miami pretty soon, this guy has still a lot in his tank and can be the missing pice for a good/very good team to become a real contender

Just my opinion of course

[October 3, 2010 8:29 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ugg boots shop said

We all want to be happy, and often we strive for that new car, bigger house, or promotion at work in order to find the elusive goal of a happy and satisfied life. Not even as I shook womens ugg boots and trembled uncontrollably in the trenches, did I forget your ugg boots face. I would sit huddled into the wet mud, terrified, as the ugg australia hails of bullets and mortars crashed down around me. I would clutch my uggs bailey button rifle tightly to my heart, and think again of that very first day we met. I would cry out in bailey button boots fear, as the noise of war beat down around me. But, as I thought ugg boots in uk of you and saw you smiling back at me, everything ugg boots usa around me would be become silent, and I would be with you again for a few precious official ugg boots moments, far from the death and destruction. It would not be ugg classic cardy until I opened my eyes once again, that I would see and hear the carnage of the war around me.I cannot tell you ugg classic cardy boots how strong my love for you was back then, when I returned to you on leave in the September, feeling uggs classic cardy battered, bruised and fragile. We held each other so tight I thought ugg uk we would burst. I asked you to marry me the very same uggs day and I whooped with joy when you looked deep into my ugg boots shop eyes and said "yes" to being my bride. LIJ http://www.uggsbailey.com/Womens-UGG-Bailey-Button-Triplet-1873.html

[October 5, 2010 7:49 AM]  |  link  |  reply
uggs bailey button uk said

Ask For What You Want It’s time to stop expecting other people to read your mind. Think about how frustrating it is for you when someone expects you to know what they are thinking. Obliteration is precisely ugg boots cardy sale what nasa intends for the spacecraft. The reason is that Galileo may still harbor some ugg classic cardy boots signs of life on Earth: microorganisms that have survived since its launch from the Kennedy Space uggs bailey button uk Center, in Florida, in 1989. If the orbiter were left to circle Jupiter after running out of bailey button uggs chocolate propellant (barring an intervention, this would likely happen within a year), it might eventually crash into Europa, one of Jupiter’s large moons. In 1996, Galileo conducted the first of eight close flybys of Europa, producing breathtaking sale bailey button ugg boots pictures of its surface, which suggested that the moon has an immense ocean hidden ugg usa bailey button beneath its frozen crust. These images have led to vociferous scientific debate about the prospects for uggs boots life there; as a result, nasa officials decided that it was necessary to avoid the possibility of seeding Europa with alien cheap argyle uggs life-forms. And so the craft has been programmed to commit suicide, guaranteeing a fiery, spectacular end to one of the most ambitious, tortured, and revelatory missions in the history of uggs classic mini space exploration. http://www.uggcardyuk.co.uk/UGG-Classic-Tall-Boots.html LZQ

Spring Training 08

Warning: include() [function.include]: http:// wrapper is disabled in the server configuration by allow_url_include=0 in /nfs/c01/h07/mnt/13075/domains/stopmikelupica.com/html/2007/09/mike_bibby_vs_stephon_marbury.php on line 510

Warning: include(http://www.stopmikelupica.com/newright.php) [function.include]: failed to open stream: no suitable wrapper could be found in /nfs/c01/h07/mnt/13075/domains/stopmikelupica.com/html/2007/09/mike_bibby_vs_stephon_marbury.php on line 510

Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening 'http://www.stopmikelupica.com/newright.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/php-5.3.29/share/pear') in /nfs/c01/h07/mnt/13075/domains/stopmikelupica.com/html/2007/09/mike_bibby_vs_stephon_marbury.php on line 510

Warning: include() [function.include]: http:// wrapper is disabled in the server configuration by allow_url_include=0 in /nfs/c01/h07/mnt/13075/domains/stopmikelupica.com/html/2007/09/mike_bibby_vs_stephon_marbury.php on line 533

Warning: include(http://www.stopmikelupica.com/newfoot.php) [function.include]: failed to open stream: no suitable wrapper could be found in /nfs/c01/h07/mnt/13075/domains/stopmikelupica.com/html/2007/09/mike_bibby_vs_stephon_marbury.php on line 533

Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening 'http://www.stopmikelupica.com/newfoot.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/php-5.3.29/share/pear') in /nfs/c01/h07/mnt/13075/domains/stopmikelupica.com/html/2007/09/mike_bibby_vs_stephon_marbury.php on line 533