and there's no doubt he's awesome....
A couple of weeks ago the discussion at Free Darko centered around Bill Simmons' ridiculous statement that Kevin Garnett is one of the two most recognizable NBAers (along with Shaq). I know that's completely wrong, and decided to have some fun and conduct an impromptu survey.
I asked 20 people who know little about the NBA, mostly coworkers, to name one active NBA player. I specifically wanted people not familiar with the NBA because it would better illustrate who has true "crossover" appeal. Oddly enough, it also turned out to be fun to guess ahead of time what they would say. Let's get to the results:
Participant #1: The GF.
Our prediction: Stephon Marbury (because we blog about him a bit).
SML: Name an active NBA player
GF: Stephon Marbury.
SML: Why?
Because we write about him, right?
GF: Because you wear his sneakers. Oh, and he was on Oprah that one time with Sarah Jessica Parker.
Dang. I knew she didn't read this blog. Although, to be fair, she does read the comments. My GF has told me in the past that she "wants to buy The Last Poet a drink" because of his nice comments. Lately that has become "want to buy Modi and JJ a drink" because of their nice complimentary comments. In other words, write something nice about SML in the comments, and my GF will buy you a drink. That should be the site's motto.
Participant #2: The Best Friend.
Our prediction: She's from western Pennsylvania. She doesn't watch much hoops. Maybe Marbury, if she reads this site.
SML: Name an active NBA player
BFF: Um, Scottie Pippen.
SML: He's not active.
BFF: Oh, shoot! Wait, I can do this...
BFF: Um, Shaquille O'Neal?
SML: Yeah, he counts.
BFF: Oh, Dennis Rodman!
SML: No, not active.
Why so many Bulls? And I guess she doesn't read the blog, either. Or look at my sneakers. Or watch Oprah.
Participant #3: Flower Girl.
Background: She's from Long Island, and went to Brown. Doesn't know much basketball. No idea - probably Jordan, then Shaq.
SML: Name an active NBA player
Flower Girl: Magic Johnson.
SML: No, active, like still playing.
Flower Girl: Michael Jordan?
SML: Sorry, not active
Ha, knew it.
Flower Girl: What about that guy who raped that girl in Colorado?
Flower Girl: Oh, and Larry Bird
SML: NOT ACTIVE!
Participant #4: CIG.
Background: She's a first generation American (of Indian background) in her 30's. She dances, and occasionally acts, in movies. She's from Jersey. Maybe an old school Knick, like Ewing?
SML: Name an active NBA player
CIG: Um... Shaquille O'Neal.
The Shaq Attack has risen! Off to an early 2-1 lead over Kobe. Of course, if this survey was in the west coast I would bet Kobe would have a higher profile.
Participant #5: KK.
Background: She's a Dominican from NYC, but I know she went to a few games in DC last year (apparently she has a "friend" down there) - I remember asking her about the ticket stubs at her desk. She saw the Skins, and the Wizards a few times. She's gonna say Gilbert Arenas. Has to.
SML: Name an active NBA player
KK: Oh, this should be easy, but I'm drawing a blank. Hmm. Um, is Camby still around?
(5 minutes later I walk back to her desk)
SML: Why Camby?!?
KK:: I was trying to think of an Knick, but I couldn't think of any. Only ex-Knicks.
(1 minute later, in the cafeteria, KK comes up to me)
KK: Hey, you know who I was going to say at first?
Gilbert Arenas?
KK: Gilbert Arenas
Told ya.
Participant #6: Goth Girl.
Background: She's one of those Goth girls. Yeah, we have those at work. Any answer that doesn't involve her drawing a pentacross on the floor around me will suffice.
SML: Name an active NBA player.
GG: Shaquille O'Neal.
(hard stare)
(SML feels fear)
(/interview)
Participant #7: Yankee Fan.
Background: Homegirl is a Yankee fan. She sometimes comes over and asks me for my opinion on Yankee stuff ("hey, how good is this Joba kid?"), but she never talks about basketball. It's because her husband or someone in the family is big into baseball, I bet.
SML: Name an active NBA player
YF: Oh, are you asking girls about basketball to see what they know?
SML: Not just girls, but yeah... it's a survey.
YF: (very proudly) LeBron James.
The King is finally in the house!
SML: Good answer!
YF: Oh, and that short guy with the cheap sneakers...
SML: Stephon Marbury?
YF: Yes!
Catching up to Shaq
SML: Why him?
YF: I saw him on the Morning show. He's very well spoken. He was talking about his sneaker tour, and how he's been to 75 cities promoting his cheap sneakers.
Well spoken? Good, f*ck the sports media. Someone isn't buying your attempts to make him seem like a rambling idiot. Doing good can make you marketable. I like that he's beating LeBron right now. It makes me feel good about the world.
Participant #8: Iowa Girl #1.
Background: No idea.
SML: Name an active NBA player
Iowa Girl: Um, Carmelo Anthony.
SML: Why 'Melo?
Iowa Girl: Oh, because he went to Syracuse, right? Led them to the championship a couple of years ago. I won my NCAA pool that year.
Right, college basketball connection. Makes sense - Iowa is big into college b-ball.
Participant #9: Connecticut Girl.
Background: Yeah, at this point we are just labeling everyone by where they are from.
SML: Name an active NBA player.
CG: LeBron James.
SML: Okay, not a bad choice.
CG: He's on the Detroit Pistons, right?
SML: Close.
CG: Oh, what about that guy on Detroit with the mask?
Found at Bread City.com
SML: Rip Hamilton?
CG: Yeah, and that other guy on the Pistons - the really good guy...
SML: Chauncey Billups?
CG: No, the really good one...
That is the good one, damnit.
SML: Rasheed Wallace?
CG: Yes!
He's the angry one, not the good one.
CG: Oh, and there's another Wallace, right?
SML: Ben Wallace. Why do know so much about the Pistons (of three years ago)?
CG: My ex-BF made me watch basketball with him.
SML: He was a Pistons fan?
CG: No, but I got him tickets to the Knicks-Pistons as a gift. I went with him...
Hmm, did he have a rooting interest in either team?
CG: It was awful. There were these Detroit fans right behind us, and they kept chanting "De-troit bas-ket-ball, De-troit bas-ket-ball." Over and over.
SML: Sounds terrible.
That does sound terrible. Even for a fan.
CG: Yeah, I'm a good GF.
Participant #10: The First Guy.
Background: He's a great writer - he has a gay blog that probably gets more hits than SML (or most sports blogs) do in a month, and we used to collab on a spoof newsletter at work together - the man is brilliantly funny. A master of satire. My guess is he'll say a Spaniard, because his DP is Catalonian.
SML: Name an active NBA player
TFG: Um, okay, I can do this.
SML: Yep, I'm sure you can.
TFG: Oh, who is that obnoxious guy... the one from Georgetown? He was there when I was a student...
SML: ?
Okay, is he talking about Ewing? He's old enough to be in school with Ewing? Nah, he's only late 30's... maybe Mourning? Mutumbo? Is he obnoxious? Othella Harrington?...
TFG: Iverson!
Iverson at Rucker Park - photo by Monte Isom.
Well, he is obnoxious, I guess. I forgot he played at Georgetown for all of like 30 minutes.
Participant #11: The Wild Card.
Our prediction: No idea. She's a pseudo-hipster/artist living in Bushwick. Beats me.
SML: Name an active NBA player
Wild card: (Pretty quickly) Allen Iverson.
Iverson at Rucker Park - photo by Monte Isom.
SML: Wow, that was one of the fastest times yet. Why?
WC: My brother's a big fan.
Duh. She's from western PA. Of course she would know the long time face of the 76ers.
Participant #12: Italian Girl.
Our prediction: New York Italian girl from Queens, with Queens accent and all. Also, she's seems pretty knowledgeable about sports - she plays soccer, and dates guidos (no offense, Ricky! Thank goodness Ricky's on vacation, eh?). Maybe a Knicks?
SML: Name an active NBA player
IG: Who's that dude in the Hanes commercials?
SML: Michael Jordan - no, he's not active.
IG: What about what's his face?
(SML waits...)
IG: Charles Barkley
SML: Hmm, good answer, but not active either.
IG: Oh, shoot. What about the cross dressing guy?
SML: Dennis Rodman. Nope, not active.
IG: Hold on, give me a minute.
IG: Okay, what about that African guy?
SML: Which one?
IG: The one from Africa, I think he went to Georgetown...
SML: Mutombo?
IG: Yeah!
SML: He's active. That's a wrap.
Why Mutombo?
IG: Because my former boss went to Georgetown, and always talked about him. He's like "Yeah, he was in my Economics class with me". He would tell me about him, and how he was from Africa and did all these good things.
IG: Hey, who is the dude in the Hanes commercials? Tall, black, skinny, bald head...
SML: Michael Jordan.
IG: No, not him... let's me think about it some more...
(One minute later)
IG: Isn't Jordan the guy with HIV?
SML: Magic Johnson
IG: Oh, my bad. You're right, Jordan is the Hanes guy!
Participant #13: Bolivian Mark.
Background: Hmm. He's from DC area originally. But he doesn't follow sports much. Interesting.
SML: Name an active NBA player
BM (quickly): Kevin Garnett
Sketch From Wagonized
What?!? What just happened? Did someone actually mention Garnett? Is Simmons right? Leave it to Bolivian Mark to screw us!
SML: Why Garnett?
BM: I just saw his house in Minnesota - it's freaking huge.
SML: You mean on TV?
BM: No, I was in Minnesota a couple of weeks ago - he has this amazing mansion...
Participant #15: Legal Girl.
Background: Yes, I skipped a number. #14 (Iowa Girl #2) failed to name a single player at all.
SML: Name an active NBA player
LG: Um, Kobe Bryant?
SML: Cool, why?
LG: Because he's famous?!?
SML is an idiot.
Participant #16: MIS Dude.
Background: Very cool guy, actually. Parties hard, lots of fun. But not into American sports too much, I believe (born in Turkey, raised in Germany, and been in the US for over 10 years, mostly in the northwest). Loves soccer.
SML: Name an active NBA player
MG: <something very Turkish sounding>
SML: Heh-dice-o?
MG: <again a name said with the Turkish accent - never heard him speak Turkish before>
SML: Heh-die-yo? He's in the NBA?
MG: Yes, he's in the NBA. I think he's on the Magic.
SML: Oh, Hedo Turkoglu. Yeah, gotcha. Wow, never heard his name pronounced in Turkish before!
Of course, duh. He picked the Turkish player. Sort of how Ginobili would be at the top of my list instinctively. And Delfino would, too.
Participant #17: Dominican Chick #2.
Background: Raised in Providence, supposedly, but very Bronx. Her ex-BF was a big Knicks fan, but that like five years ago.
SML: Name an active NBA player
DC: Um, is John Sparks still active?
SML: No, John Starks is not playing anymore.
DC: Shoot. All the ones I'm thinking off are retired - Ewing, Jordan.
DC: Oh, I know...
SML: Yeah?
DC: The guy, what's his name... the one that got into trouble for raping that girl but didn't?
SML: Kobe Bryant?
DC: Yeah. And Shaq is still playing, right?
Hmm, make sure to note the subtle differences in the two Kobe responses... the Dominican pointed out that he was accused and found innocent, where as the white girl said he raped her, with no regard to innocence. Fascinating. It's like a Chapelle show skit: Black and brown people talk like this... white people talk like this...
Participant #18: Broken Wing.
Background: She's from NYC.
SML: Name an active NBA player
BW: Um, okay. Allen Iverson.
SML: Why Iverson?
BW: Why not? No reason. Just thought of him.
SML: Seriously, no reason?...
BW: Just thought of him.
<Hit the Staples button>
Okay, that was easy.
Participant #19: The Burnout.
Background: From Delaware/Philly. He's has to say Allen Iverson.
SML: Name an active NBA player
BO: LeBron James.
SML: Word, why LeBron? Cuz he's famous?
BO: You know, just popped into my head. I should have said Allen Iverson, actually.
BO: I went to Georgetown with Iverson (and, apparently, Guy #1). He played for my Philly team all those years. He's so much cooler. Why didn't I say Iverson?
SML: That's what I was wondering!
Participant #20: The Boston Girl.
Background: We got tired, so we picked someone who kinda knows or follows basketball a bit. She's from Boston, and as we all know, ain't nothing to do but follow sports in Boston. Obsess over sports, actually. It does mean that the average chicks from Boston tend to know more about sports than any other average chick. So this is kinda cheating, but I need to wrap this up.
SML: Name an active NBA player
BG: Shaquille O'Neal.
Graph time! I'll add the graphs in tomorrow...
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21 Comments
Comments
Any answer that doesn't involve her drawing a pentacross on the floor around me will suffice.
SML: Name an active NBA player.
GG: Shaquille O'Neal.
(hard stare)
CLASSIC!
Awesome post, SML. Actually, the last two weeks have been great. Yep, even in Istanbul, I kept up.
Will your girlfriend buy me a drink now?
I wish John Starks was still active. And have all the people you work with gone to Georgetown? I had a cousin go there.
And oh yeah SML is a great writer. I'll take a crown and coke.
SML is the next Jesus Christ of writers. No doubt about that. Unfortunately, Jordi is GOD....does that still get me a drink?
My GF is buying everyone a round! Except Brian, because he's angry white guy.
Jordi: Nah, hardly anyone went to Georgetown. More like Oberlin. Very liberal arts oriented crowd. One guy I knew from work went to GU for all of a semester, hated it, transferred out. That's more in line with the crowd.
McGill & LSE. That's where it's at. The Marathon Man and Bolivian Mark both went to McGill. Boston Girl and Bolivian Mark both went to LSE. The GF, Broken Wing, Legal Girl and Flower Girl are all Ivy Leaguers (very common at my job, too).
I prefer my drinks to come from you, when the Sixers destroy the Knicks, anyway.
I'm going to use "angry white guy" from now on, I think.
Brian's picture on his site just screams angry white guy. By the way, I hate white people.
"Nutella: The Only Thing It Doesn't Taste Good On... is Rape."
OK, but seriously. This is an awesome post (gin and tonic, thanks), but it doesn't really address Simmons' probably untrue statement. The way to test that is now to print out pictures of all these fine gentlemen, and take them back around to these non-sports fans to see if they know who you're showing them.
My guess? They'll know Shaq & Kobe almost across the board (maybe I'm still just an LA fanboy), some more will know AI, MAYBE four people will know who the hell Garnett is. If you want me to run interference between you and the goth girl, I'm happy to do so. I went to theatRE school, savvy? These fools don't faze me.
Good idea, DJM - that'll be the next survey. But I still have some graphs and stuff I have to do first to finish this off...
Yo, what's with the obnoxious Iverson comment? Is that a common opinion. And the white chick's response to Kobe immediately jumped out at me. Angry white dude thinks KObe did it too? Kobe can't win for losing.
If the Dominican girl actually said exactly this: "the one that got into trouble for raping that girl but didn't?" that sounds more like she's saying he didn't actually get in trouble, as opposed to saying he didn't rape the girl.
That's based on grammar, but if you actually heard her speak the words, then I suppose inflection and tone would help you get the meaning more.
I love it; in-depth reporting, taking it to the mean streets. Well, not exactly, ha, but it's good to see someone actually creating a story.
Allen (Iverson?): It is a common perception, though to be fair I don't think he actually agreed with it. I think he meant like "that guy everyone says is obnoxious" rather than has a statement of his own beliefs. Maybe its because he is a friend, but I think he's very open minded, and doesn't read enough sportspress to actually believe Iverson is obnoxious; hence I think he meant that Iverson has that perception.
Others have openly classify him as a "thug"; I think he's at worst a former thug who is older and into his family now, and not into his crew as much. People don't realize that young men, 21 years old, aren't the same people when they turn 30. Or rather, people know this, yet they ignore it when it comes to sports athletes. I'm almost 30; I'm not the same I was at 25, or 21, or 17. The people I hang with - some are the same, some are different. The places I hang - some are the same, some are different. The activities I consider fun now, etc.
MC Bias: Yeah, it's hardly a scientific survey or anything, I know! My name ain't Zogby. But you hit it on the nail - I'm just trying to create a story. Trying to do something that ain't really being done too much in the blogsphere. Just trying to be creative, and try things out. This site really is a big lab, and me and DJM are just two dudes with lab coats playing mice games!
Good survey. I wouldn't have even put KG in the Top Five and am surprised Dwayne Wade and Tim Duncan didn't even get mentioned.
I extended the social experiment to our home, asking the spouse and my 15 yr. old.
Results: Shaq and Allen Iverson. (I'm proud of my spouse for not saying Jordan).
But I gotta defend both Brian and my boy Allen Iverson here. The woman he allegedly raped dropped charges for a undisclosed settlement but did receive a public apology from Kobe immediately after that sure sounded like an admission of guilt to me.
As for Iverson, yes, he's portrayed as a thug, sometimes it's deserved. But one thing about Iverson, he loves kids and does a lot of charity work for them. And he's loyal to friends and family, to a fault, even when he should have left them behind for his own good and reputation.
But interesting social experiment. It would be interesting to see this done with a larger number of respondents, although I agree that KG is not the most recognizable face of the NBA.
This post was quite interesting, but I think it misses Simmons' point a little bit. It's entirely possible that the "nba player an average person would recognize" is very different from "nba player with the presence to stop a room." I'm guessing Shaq still comes top and Kobe, AI, and Lebron are above KG, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if KG were #5 or near. He's startling in person.
True, Hank. That is true, they are two different ideas.
I do think most any NBA player has the presence to stop a room. I remember seeing Charles Oakley in person once many years ago - my thoughts were "damn, his forearms are huge. Bigger than most people's quads!". Seriously, a young 6'10 guy is probably going to draw alot of attention anywhere, regardless of whether its Kevin Garnett or Paul Shirley or Etan Thomas. I'm not disagreeing with you so much as still disagree with the basic premise of Simmons' statement.
But yeah, this survey does not directly dispute Simmons' statement. I guess my point is Kevin Garnett might stop a room, but most "normal" people won't know him from Etan Thomas or Kwame Brown!
total side note about AI and him being "obnoxious"
I've heard that from alot of people, even that when he plays ball he was like that. My brother played high school ball vs AI back in the day, and in the first play of the game he pointed and laughed at the team then threw an alley oop from like half court. I'm of the "hes obnoxious" camp since i heard that, even if it was a while ago.
I'm sorry I missed out on the free drinks from the GF, but better late than never, right? After all, I was first in line for the drink, wasn't I? I can use a drink now that I've soured on TSF.
Anyway, while I believe Simmons meant to convey the sense of presence and personality that Garnett possesses (plus the fact that he's 7 feet tall), and not necessarily the fact that he'd be recognized by folks who don't watch pro hoops, I still think this article was fantastic. Shid, the people I work with have absolutely no idea about anything related to the NBA, but it was funny to imagine what they might say anyway, and it was great to read the names your co-workers came up with (Goth chick was amazing - can you bring her along for the free drink?).
So name the time and place and have a shot (or two) of Grey Goose on standby... I take it straight!
"she plays soccer, and dates guidos"
Her phone number, please
(great post)
Hmm, make sure to note the subtle differences in the two Kobe responses... the Dominican pointed out that he was accused and found innocent, where as the white girl said he raped her, with no regard to innocence
Was he actually found innocent?
The way I remember it, his accuser dropped the charges when a large sum of money was deposited in her bank account. That's not an acquittal in my book. But I'm white, so I guess it's expected that I'd say that.