OK, first of all, wow. This is one of those extremely rare posts where I'm qualified to chime in on about fifty different levels.

1. I am, in fact, a New Jerseyite, born and bred. OK, not really born, but I was 9 months old, so that counts too.

2. I am currently one of those white people who own a coop in Brooklyn, but I could care less about Ratner and his Netropolis plans, as long is it doesn't make it any harder to find a parking spot on my street.

3. Becky lost major points when she said "Eagles, ewe."

4. Becky lost even more points when she said she wants to move to Manhattan...ewe.

5. Becky won back some points when she dissed hipsters. I fucking hate Vespas.

OK, now to the subject at hand. First of all, I grew up in NJ, as I said, in a rural town that has since turned into suburban hell, so SML, it's not just you. Everyone's neighborhood goes to hell when you grow up, one way or another. Second, of all the people I grew up with, not one was a Nets' fan. Not a single one. They were all Knicks fans. Probably because the Nets blew, but there you have it. I don't know who's doing the bitching about them moving to NY, honestly the only people I've seen who give a shit are at the Food Coop in Park Slope picketing themselves, and who gives a fuck what those whiners think.

From a transplanted Brooklynite's point of view, yes, this borough needs a team. Yes, the Nets are going to sell more tickets here. Yes, I'll go to two games every year, when the Sixers come to town, maybe more if I'm forced. No, I won't switch alliances, just because they're playing their games a mile from my home.

The thing to consider here is the kids. We "adults" have either already chosen sides, or we aren't worth the effort anyway because we're spineless. But the youth in Brooklyn will now have a team to grow up following. The affect of the move in the short term won't be huge, but there's a whole lot of people in this area (both Hoboken East transplants, and home grown BK people) who will grow up with a team of their own, in their own backyard, and won't have to go to the city to watch the God awful Knicks. For them, I'm happy.

Back to Becky: First, if you ever run into a guy who just "chose" a new team to root for, run for the hills because the odds are that he hasn't yet really picked which team he "plays" for, if you catch my drift. Second, you should adopt my rule for Manhattan-based friends, I don't go see them until they come out to see me. One for one. If they won't do it, they're lame anyway.

And last, but not least, and this goes way back to the very beginning of this post when Jacob asked "I'm a Knick fan living in Brooklyn. Am I within my rights to root for the Nets?"

No, you are not. You made your bed, now sleep in it. There are no do-overs when you're a sports fan. You pick your team, you stick with them through the highs and lows. Or just the lows, as the case may be.

Good point about the kids - I really wanted to make that point, too. The Park Slope babies now have a team they will grow up rooting for. And there you have it from a Jersey guy - the Nets didn't have a strong following to begin with. Which is why they needed to make this move.

Brian reminded me of Jacob's question, which I don't think I address: "Can a Knicks fan root for the Nets?" - Becky laid out the grounds in which it is okay (strong attachment to BK, not a big Knick fan anyway). Personally I won't root for the Nets anymore than I do now - I'm obviously a Knicks fan, but there isn't a historic rivalry between the Knicks-Nets, so there isn't an intense hatred or anything. So I like to watch the Nets games, to watch Vince Carter and Jason Kidd. Do I root for the Nets to win? Not unless I have money on the game. But I don't root against them, either, unless they happen to be competing with the Knicks for the last two playoff spots.

OK...FIRST of all.
At this point in my 3rd year of law school, I'm supposed to have a job. When I said I want to stay in NYC, that implied all 5 boroughs and probably some of the suburbs too. Yes, I'm that desperate. To be honest though, if I got a job anywhere from midtown downward, I would most likely look to stay somewhere in Brooklyn. I LIKE Brooklyn.

SECOND of all...yeah, fuck the Eagles.

Third of all...I like BK Heights and Carroll Gardens and this whole area, but in my defense, I don't hang w/ your "transplants." Being in law school has created a different universe in terms of the people I'm surrounded by here, so it's not really a fair assessment of the area and who lives here. But being able to be picky about who I hang out with (and having a lot of my friends from home and college nearby), I like the area itself.

Anyway. Enough talk of location.

Nets games don't sell out all that often, and the energy in CAA usually feels like it's lacking a bit. I've never been entirely certain if that was due to an indifference on the part of New Jerseyites (thanks) or due some perceived difficulties in getting to the game. When the idea of staying in East Rutherford was on the table, it was said the arena needed a major overhaul (wider concourses, more luxury boxes, etc.) and that would fix the attendance problem. I'm not sure if that would have been the case or not, but we'll never really know I guess. At this point I will say that the bus from Port Authority is easy as hell and incredibly convenient, but it took me until just a few weeks ago to figure that out. In any event, attendance IS a problem. A few years ago in the EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS, they had to sell off whole sections to the media or whoever to give the impression of sold out games. Even the game vs. Denver the other night was sold out, but it certainly didn't LOOK like all the seats were filled, not by a long shot.
HOWEVER. I don't think it's fair to say people in NJ don't care about the team leaving. I know especially over at Joe Nets Fan (seriously, I don't know anything about html, don't hate me for not linking) there are some very loyal and very vocal fans who are extremely displeased with the move, even now that they've known about it for awhile and could have made peace by now. I can't say what the demographics of these fans are, but I'm guessing they're the ones that have found it convenient to go to the Meadowlands all these years and think NJ is the place to be. (That's not a dig. A lot of people in Bergen County love it there, and rightfully so.) They have the Jersey pride AND the loss of a home team. And yes, they are upset.

To be honest, I hadn't really considered the kids to be part of the mix. Then you're dealing with "Do you root for your parents' team or pick your own team" issues, and I would have to defer that question to someone like the Varsity Dad (Dan Shanoff). But it's fair to say that the kids that will be born and raised in Brooklyn whose parents have no NBA rooting interest will most likely be Nets fans.

Speaking of Dan Shanoff, both him and Simmons and I'm sure a bunch of other people have already written what the proper guidelines for adopting new teams to root for are. I haven't brushed up on the current rules recently, but I know there is some wiggle room for people who move away from their team. If there's no rivalry between the teams, I don't see why you couldn't ADOPT a new team, short of getting League Pass/Extra Innings/Sunday Ticket to follow your own team. If you're an NBA fan, you're going to follow the team in your local market. If you still love your own team above all else, you can root for more than one team. I mean, in the playoffs when our teams are out or absent completely, don't we pick a pony?
Of course, none of that implies any "switching" of allegiances.

The thing that makes the Nets/Knicks situation so unique is that they are SHARING A MARKET. Most people can watch either one on TV every night. (Note: I cannot. More on this in a sec.) If you're a Knicks fan, in Brooklyn or anywhere around here, the Nets being in Brooklyn and no longer in NJ does not affect your access to their games. You can already watch them! And you're right, the fact that they might play closer to your crib shouldn't make you give up on the Knicks (or the Sixers, if that's your bag). In this situation, it's not a matter of "I can't watch my team, so I'll also root for one I CAN watch." It's actually a strict matter of preference.

And I think there IS a rivalry, not historically, but just look at the Nets/Knicks playoffs in '04. That shit got UGLY. Just the geographic proximity leads to at the very least a media-created rivalry every time these teams play. I don't think you can root for both, even when one is crappy and the other is good. (Looking your way, Spike....)

Now. That being said. I am a diehard Nets fan. But arguendo, say I was not. Say my parents really liked the Nets and I went w/ them to a couple games but other than those games I never watched them and more or less couldn't care less about them. If you were to ask me who I liked in the NBA I could be like, "Oh...my parents are Nets fans so I guess I am too," but I wouldn't be able to name more than 1 or 2 players. Now place me in my current situation, where I am spending 2 full years in a building where I do not have the option of watching the Nets. (Seriously, YES Network, Dish Network...you guys can work this out. I know you can.) Now say I got into the NBA in a cursory sense and wanted to check out some more games...yada yada yada, I watch the Knicks because they're the only team available to me. If I got really into it, I would probably become a Knicks fan, right?
This is obviously a far cry from the truth about me. But you can see the type of situation where I could see a "switch." That's what I meant by "minimal interest." I do mean MINIMAL.

Of course, I dislike the Knicks. But I DO watch them occasionally, just because they are on a channel I get. (Occasionally I would watch random Bulls games at my ex's because he got that WGN channel or whatever it was.) But I watch the Knicks because I am a fan of the NBA as a whole. I have to say though, I DO root against them. Their recent suckitude has made it so it's not as vehemently as in the past, but I just don't think you can root for both. (Gambling outcomes excluded.)
Anyway, I am sorry I didn't address that specific part of it. The short answer is, indeed, "no".

On a somewhat related note...I'm actually going to my first Knicks game tonight. And yes, I will be (quietly) rooting against them. Of course this season there are playoff implications for the Nets in the fortunes of the Knicks. But I would have rooted against them anyway. :)

This of course is a perfect segway to the can/should the Nets make the playoffs this year question.
Ahhhh...yeah. They CAN. The rest of the schedule is pretty easy, and they're right there in the thing. RJ's back, everyone seems healthy, so why the hell not? They've been underachieving all season too, and if EVERYONE would get their heads in the freaking games, I could guarantee they'd make it in.
SHOULD they? Well, it's a little late to pull a full tank job. This upcoming draft is so deep and such a crapshoot after the first few picks. So there's not enough of a difference in the picks that the teams in the 8th, 9th and 10th spots will get to justify tanking the rest of the season at this point. (Note: I say "tank" in the sense of sayyy a D-Wade surgery option. Not deliberately throwing games. Resting starters more, that sort of thing, I guess.) But yes, they SHOULD do everything they can to make the playoffs. Other than the Pistons (and EVEN the Pistons to some extent), every team in the East looks completely fallible. It's not like in the West where you can pretty much say "Well no one other than the Suns, Mavs or Spurs is coming out." I happen to think the East is wide open. I know there are Pistons fans out there who will disagree with me wholeheartedly, but that's just like...your opinion, man.
I would obviously feel a lot better about the Nets' chances if Nenad were coming back (god I miss him), but if Mikki can keep up w/ his steep learning curve and Uncle Cliffy can stop being completely useless and Vince actually tries and cares every game and RJ gets his legs back under him fully...well, that's a lot of "if" but anything's possible.

As for the Air Pussy issue...
Hey, I'll start w/ an anecdote! I like to do that. Stop me if you've heard this one before.
During the playoffs last year, my then-boyfriend ran into a friend of his he used to bartend with who also happened to be a good friend of RJ's. While he was catching up w/ him, RJ actually called him. I think it was during the Miami series and the Nets were in Miami...I'm not 100% certain, but whatever. Basically, my bf overheard RJ bitching to his friend about Vince taking way too many shots, and especially way too many BAD shots. This was something we had all noticed (seriously Vince, it is OK to pass sometimes, and I'm glad you have learned that a bit in the past year) and it was funny at the time that RJ was calling his boy up to complain.
There's another one from Dave D'Alessandro over here:
http://blog.nj.com/netsblast/2007/03/mails_in_the_bash_vince_repris.html
And that's been the rap on Vince forever. If he doesn't care? He's not playing hard. Now I think if he really wants to stay in NJ, they should re-sign him because if Vince is happy, Vince is great. But this season Vince is distracted and probably somewhat unhappy and that's why I (we) can't stand him. Personally, I would have loved a trade w/ Orlando for say, Darko, JJ and Hill's expiring contract. I'm not on the inside, but someone who is probably has a better idea of whether or not Vince plans on walking away. Obviously they aren't certain or they would have unloaded him and gotten SOMETHING in return.
The other thing is, I think his relationship w/ the organization is good enough that he would do a sign-and-trade and not deliberately try and dick anyone over. From what I can gather, his bitchiness on the court doesn't translate to any bitchiness off of it. In all fairness, he seems like a great PERSON. As a player though, he pisses me (and a lot of people) off, and it won't exactly be a sad day if/when he leaves.
I have said it before and I'll say it again-
In Rod we trust.
He's one of the best GMs out there and I don't think he's going to do anything that will screw the franchise over at all.

In terms of next season and beyond, I don't really know....
It depends on how Nenad comes back. If he were healthy this year, I think you would be looking at a much better record. He was improving with every game and was hanging w/ some of the best big men in the league. So a healthy Nenad is key.
It depends on the development of the young guys. Marcus and Boki and even Boone and Wright have looked good lately and if they can get better (and if Larry can actually figure out a set rotation), they can all be key components. And guys like Marcus especially will be the starters of the future, so you have to keep that in mind. So a strong bench is key.
It depends on JKidd. His divorce and his age are obviously red flags. But he looks like he's at least got another few years of playing at a high level in him. Obviously, the Captain is key.
There are a bunch of other factors (signing Mikki back on would be great, for the right price) that come into play, but they'll have to see how the VC situation (and before that, the VC divorse situation) plays out before they figure the rest out.
If you're asking me if I think they should blow it all up, then no. I don't think that's necessary at this point, you have some savvy vets and some very good young players. It's always been about pieces, and I think it IS possible to add the right ones w/out starting from scratch.
But as a fan, I tend to be pretty optimistic. And w/ the Nets, I tend to thing (hope?) that they can hang w/ anyone.
Of cousre, it's always easy to be optimistic when you're not watching your team blow a 15 point lead in the 4th quarter though, right?

I'm not sure I can justify swapping New York basketball teams but I'll try my best to present my case.

Argument #1: Joining the Nets fanbase can be justified because The Nets will be another New York sports franchise. Had I been presented with another New York basketball team as a child, who's to say that I wouldn't have been a Nets fan?

Argument #2: Relationships end. Marriages end. Why can't certain Sports fanships come to an end as well? I've suffered enough with the Knicks. I've seen them suck; I've seen them come excrutiatingly close to winning it all and I've seen them suck again. It's not like I'm bowing out of this relationships with a few championship runs under my belt. This team has completely drained me as a sports fan. Aren't I allowed to make a change?

Argument #3: I've come to loathe the teams I root for. This feeling started to ferment while watching the Yankees the past few years and has only grown more toxic with the Knicks recent woes. Derek Jeter is a humorless creep. The Yankees are a neo-facist organization. Isiah Thomas, with his disingenous, baby-faced smile, is beelzebub in the body of a south-chicago point guard. James Dolan is the alcoholic, absentee father I never wanted. With the exception of David Lee and maybe Renaldo Balkman, I could care less for the Knicks' roster. And they even have several players that I openly dislike (Marbury, S. , Curry, E., Franchise, S.). Neither of the teams I root for play with a Joie de Vivre and its bringing me down.

Argument #4: Every New York Jew is fated to root for a Brooklyn sports team. Since the Dodgers left Brooklyn, the borrough has never really been the same (Jonathan Lethem gives a wonderful account of this in his novel, "The Fortress of Solitude"). I'm not religious but I have a feeling that it is my spiritual destiny to root for the Brooklyn Nets.

eh...I hear you and all, but sports teams demand a loyalty that lovers do not.
I don't like rooting for A-Job any more than the rest of you, but I'd rather struggle through it and dream of better days than just decide, "Hey I think I'll be a Mets fan instead!"

With regards to Becky's comments, there's alot of material there to sort through. I'm gonna save the Vince Carter/future stuff for a later discussion, though I think "In Rod We Trust" sums it up best. I would, too, if I was a Nets fan. But then again what do I know, I trust Isiah....

She brings up the Nets/Knicks rivalry, which she clearly views as a rivalry. But I think most Knicks fans, including myself, don't consider the Nets a rival due to their historic inepitude. Not trying to bring ya down, honestly, that's just how we feel. We don't really hate ya'll, because really, for a long time the only thing you could feel towards Nets fans was straight sympathy. If their fans were vocal and obnoxious and combative, like Red Sox fans, then we could hate them despite their suckitude. But since Nets fans (in NY) are a small quiet minority, we generally leave them in peace. Like the Grizzlies or something, but closer.

Apparently they don't feel the same. They hate the Knicks, huh?

Jacob brings up a good point: Why can't you quit on a team and move on? I don't think that's ever really a problem, though - most of the arguments presented here by Becky, me, and the Sportsguy/Shanoffs types indicate that "Sports Bigamy" is the problem. But there isn't any sportslaws (Becky, in addition to being The Hotness, is also Blogsbyfan's SportsLawyer, for the record) that prevent you from divorcing your team if things can't be worked out, and marrying a new team.

If you are asking for support to divorce the Knicks and move onto the Nets, I'm with you. I mean, I'm not switching alliegences (I'm not sour on the Knicks like you are), but I respect your right to. And the SportsLawyer will happily defend you, if you need.

As far as I'm concerned, if you don't have something to complain about regarding your favorite teams, life is boring.

There's no law against switching, but in my book you lose the right to call yourself a fan.

If you switch favorite teams based on the Nets moving location, you're only one rung up the ladder from someone who switches whenever his favorite player is traded ( http://behindthebacksports.com )and that's pretty much as low as you can go.

To stick with the legalese terms, you're definitely paying alimony to real Knicks' fans the rest of your life, and they pretty much always have the upper hand in any argument.

But as long as you can look yourself in the mirror when you put on your baby blue throwback Mike Gminski NJ Nets jersey, so be it.

I'm a diehard Knick fan and I've lived in Jersey for most of my life. My thoughts:

1. I hate the Nets and I will continue to hate them (if not even more) when they move.
2. I don't know only one real Net fan. A lot of people casually root for NJ because they're better, closer to home, and the tickets are cheap, but no one watches every game, and no one really cares. No one that I know anyway.
3. Most adult Net fans grew up Knick fans and most younger Net fans converted when the Nets got good.

I don't know if that contributes anything, but it's the troof. UNGH.

I think if you're alive, you can't switch, but people will. Here's the problem though: this fucks up the Knicks tremendously. I say MSG loses 2 or 3 or 5 thousand tickets a game, which will fuck them up financially, and the Garden will turn from a Mecca to any other stadium. But on the topic, I've always had a real big hypothetical about our Steph, who, hate him or love him, is our franchise and has been for a couple of years. We don't know what factors were behind the trade that got him here, but a factor was definitely Steph wanting to play for the Knicks having been a fan in his youth. When the Nets pick up in BK, does he want to ghost like Swayze? Is Lance Stephenson gonna be trying to sign free agent deals in BK in 5 years?

The Nets have historically played Manolo to the Knicks’ Tony for reasons unrelated to either geography or aptitude; the malarial swamp that is the Meadowlands routinely draws Giants/Jets fans and the Nets have been legitimate contenders at various points during the last twenty-five years.

The true culprit of the Nets’ impuissance is their severe lack of charisma, from their shittastic ABA-knockoff uniforms of the ‘80s, to their wack announcer, to their charmless, smackdown-laying team captain of today, to the fact that their celebrity row consists of Jason Mewes and Vinny from Naughty by Nature (these were the ‘celebrities’ at the last net game I attended; they can’t even extract a Treach appearance for godssake), the Nets have historically exuded the charm of a head of lettuce.

The move across the Hudson and the nominal influence of the Jiggaman may very well add some pizzazz, but at the end of the day they’ll still be the same brummagem perpetrators they’ve always been. Like Arnold and Willis, the Nets will, in time, blend into their flashy new surroundings, but in the short run it’s going to be netscapades 2.0. Some people in the comments liken meeting an actual Nets fans to peeping a spotted owl, but I’ve met quite a few Nets fans over the years, most of them being native Jersey-ites or Mount Vernon peeps. They seemed like fine people, even as they radiated a pathetic, Willy Lomanesque vibe.

As far as shifting allegiances, no Brooklyn-based Knicks fan worth their salt will cross the imaginary borderline, no matter how far doltsaiah drives the team into the ground. The next generation of Brooklyn-born hoops fans, having been socialized into an environment where a new team has been there since the beginning, will certainly be more amenable, but if their parents are doing a proper job of sports-brainwashing (like they’re supposed to), these effects, too, will be muted.

As a born and bred Brooklynite, I will never set foot in whatever monstrosity Frank Gehry cooks up, for reasons personal and political (and in Gehry’s case, aesthetic). Apart from the degree to which my tax dollars are subsidizing the project, the loathsome Ratner will never see a single drachma from me. I also think that SML drastically overestimates the degree to which long-term residents are welcoming the (sub-prime) buyouts of their homes. While some counter-Ratnerites are certainly members of the gentrifying sect (who knew Heath Ledger was such a class warrior?), the majority of people who oppose it are in fact long-term residents. Most lifelong Brooklynites who are feeling the cultural and economic sting of gentrification hate Ratner and much as they do hipsters, yuppies, bobos and bohos: just ‘cause you’re not a shaggy-haired hipster swigging PBRs and living in Williamsburg, doesn’t mean your presence is any less odious to us – we just want to be left alone.

I think this whole new jersey nets thing going to brooklyn is stupid. New York has to many teams that Includes New york giants, New York Jets, NEW YORK yankees new york mets,New york rangers and so on. new jersey needs one team in each sport so that would of new york teams whould hav to go.

Its just not fair

The Nets are the only team we have!

I live in south jersey and have rooted for the Nets and attended Nets games. When the Nets move to Brooklyn, I'll never go to that shithole to watch those queens again. A quick trip down the A.C. expressway makes me a Sixers fan. Screw the Nets!, and screw Brooklyn!

Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.

The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it'll do even better in those areas, but for now it's a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod's strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.

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